HOPEPUNK.Storytelling - Documenting European Life & Culture through Filmmaking via The Europa Project, with Ben Wiesner

00:00:03: I think i was just raised with this ideology of curiosity that before you judge, your always curious first and until proven.

00:00:15: That is person someone to fear.

00:00:18: You stay curious And thats kind what we built all our projects and films and content everything on.

00:00:29: We have something to learn from people who don't know or understand.

00:00:35: Hope Punk is a podcast about hope as a choice in the face of adversity.

00:00:40: Hope, meant an activating force not wishful thinking.

00:00:44: It's my intention with this podcast to shine a light on people projects and spaces that embody hope inspired action every day.

00:00:53: My guest today is Benjamin Wiesner.

00:00:55: He's founder of The Europa Project A collective of European filmmakers A collaborative documentary project about what we can achieve when Europe stands as one and what we risk losing, When We Don't.

00:01:09: The Europa Project started off only last year... ...and I've been following them from afar ever since!

00:01:15: And really happy to be able to interview Ben today.

00:01:22: Benjamin is so happy to have you on the podcast.

00:01:25: Yeah thanks for having me.

00:01:27: As i said it's my first podcast.

00:01:29: actually So did as requested Prepare much and also when we interview people, obviously.

00:01:37: We like to do the same.

00:01:37: it's nice to give Whatever answer comes into your head in a moment.

00:01:41: so that's what I'm aiming to do.

00:01:43: i have The same opening question for everyone which is?

00:01:46: What's your take on hope?

00:01:49: yeah this Is probably the one because I. the problem I Have When I read questions before joining A session Like This Is That I can't help but think about my answers beforehand, so i stopped after this one.

00:02:02: But this is the one that did thing a little bit.

00:02:06: My take on hope...I think often it's confused with naivety as many people confuse hope of being naive because sometimes you feel like there's pointless optimism and you're just going to believe in good outcome just so I don't feel sad.

00:02:29: But to me, that's not what it is.

00:02:33: in a way i always think of this like steve jobs quote which you can think about on what do you want but i really liked that quote.

00:02:39: um It's...I think when something like You know the people who are crazy enough to believe That they can actually change The world might be the ones that Do it!

00:02:48: In the end and we've had So many moments On This project where..it Just seems Like the craziest thing to throw away whatever life you were living beforehand, which was very telegraphed and predictable.

00:03:05: And say I'm going follow this random vain idea because i really feel something for

00:03:11: it.".

00:03:13: To me its almost that the sense of naivety is strength.

00:03:18: if actually get yourself believe in a positive outcome or better world then... You can do it!

00:03:28: And it takes a horrendous amount of willpower to do that, but I think if the more people you are surrounded by who feel the same thing.

00:03:34: The...the more likely it is.

00:03:38: so in a way It's-it becomes less naive than more people do it.

00:03:45: So yeah i think In the end its..its Its' the power Of kind of belief in something thats bigger then new and It might seem childish or silly to begin with, but if you can infect enough people will that it becomes a very powerful thing.

00:04:03: And I think this sounds at the core of what we're doing.

00:04:06: So in a way.

00:04:07: Yeah Very aligned To our mission and yeah, well i want keep there.

00:04:12: That's kind Of The answer.

00:04:14: Cool What is it?

00:04:16: You do and why did you set out to Do it?

00:04:20: um It started off With A bunch government officials, me included in Australia actually.

00:04:30: So I'm half German, half Australian and i was living in Australia a few years ago working for the Ministry of Environment pursuing a career that I thought at the time was going to be my career for the rest of my life um And somehow accidentally started experimenting with cameras and film as a hobby.

00:04:49: Um like every young person um am gonna say like every person coming fresh out of university into their first job, you can become quickly disillusioned with what that looks like.

00:05:01: And also this would disillusion with the world that you find yourself in which I think at that point your crane war was just starting or the current one anyway.

00:05:10: there was a lot of geopolitical tension.

00:05:13: i was away from home which in germany had grown up so i would call that home and it just felt kind of hopeless and kind of silly to not do anything about just because we were in a stable, safe career.

00:05:31: So... We had this idea at the beginning to use our kind of creative skills where all the group of filmmakers, photographers very early on To create some kind of... In Australia exactly But with some ties to Europe one way or another.

00:05:50: I'd grown up there.

00:05:52: Some of us lived there and awkward sense.

00:05:56: that was kind of a melting pot for geopolitical tension, but also opportunity.

00:06:01: Because it's really one of the few places maybe out of one of worst conflicts in the world managed to turn or become something incredibly inspiring and peaceful and harmonious obviously imperfect... But still hopeful in a way.

00:06:20: And well We were preparing to head over there for a trip, we were thinking the whole time that it would be nice to capture this feeling in some way.

00:06:29: In film.

00:06:31: um That could perpetuate this idea that this is really what most of us want because It's very easy to look at the news and feel like you are outnumbered by extremist racist Ideology just because those often the loudest.

00:06:49: And we had gotten so much out of being internationally-minded, multicultural multinational and that has given us so much value in life.

00:07:02: The best thing we can do with the skillset is to tell some kind of story about it which reaches as many people.

00:07:21: multiculturalism of international relations, but always from a human angle and not from a facts-and-figures news kind of angle which is very important.

00:07:34: But we found that there was enough of that and not enough humanity in the information were being bombarded with every day.

00:07:44: May I ask what year you are born?

00:07:47: Just for context.

00:07:51: Because I was born in Eighty-one and i'm asking this because we grew up during different times In Europe, but We both profited from peace.

00:08:01: I think one thing that drew me to your project very early on And launched in November of last year?

00:08:07: And I thought like finally someone is telling these stories because you actually started hiking across Europe and You sought out border regions in particular.

00:08:18: right

00:08:19: Yes, and that's something we still do.

00:08:23: Why did you find?

00:08:24: Yeah So it started off as a hiking project.

00:08:28: Essentially We looked at our project in the beginning As one big journey And quickly realized That were gonna be there for very long time.

00:08:35: Not get much done If try to encapsulate everything In one.

00:08:41: so we very quick decided To break up into chapters Looking in the beginning at the Slovenian and Italian country border, which was the focus of our first film essentially hiking and traveling along this border region specifically because it is a place.

00:08:58: And border regions are usually a place of past conflict.

00:09:02: they're placed over lot suffering or death war division separation.

00:09:11: interestingly in Slovenia Italy You hike along this border now or you travel around it and cannot tell.

00:09:19: There are many memorials, there's a lot of historical signs but It feels like one the most open and inclusive and culturally integrated places in the world.

00:09:33: Many people on board speak both languages.

00:09:36: If we get into deeper conversations some of the stories, they're very much present and in the memories of people.

00:09:48: But it's incredible.

00:09:50: how much can happen in eighty years or so?

00:09:56: So the focus of this first chapter was really to explore how that happened...

00:10:01: Give me a transformation from conflict to peace and openness.

00:10:06: Yes

00:10:07: exactly!

00:10:08: How we could change so quickly in both directions.

00:10:15: Because beforehand, it was a kind of beautiful untouched region as well and then turned into one of the bloodiest battles of the Izonso or like Izonzo in Italian such as The Name Of The River In Slovenian were some of the worst in World War II And they say that the river actually ran red because all soldiers died on.

00:10:40: it is such a symbol for inclusivity and connection.

00:10:46: And it's also a beautiful place to travel through, so we just wanted to find out what entailed that transformation?

00:10:56: That was a huge effort!

00:10:57: We are still editing the film actually because as good as possible can be... ...we're getting to point now where its reaching a late stage but we need more months.

00:11:07: And then we started looking for other places where a similar concept might be applied, which led us eventually to travel to Greece and Greenland this year or the Greek islands between Greece and Turkey.

00:11:24: Then in Greenland it was about the Greenlandic Danish relationships in the context of the interests of US invasion and we realized that there are so, so many examples in Europe like that.

00:11:40: And um... In the process We had to abandon our hiking idea a little bit because well in Greenland I don't think i would have made it very far let's put it that way.

00:11:52: but yeah It is quickly expanding and actually just got back from trip through The Balkans Just two weeks ago So That was Our fourth one And so we're doing a lot at once.

00:12:04: Let's say let's put it that way,

00:12:06: yeah but It seems like you are definitely following A thread in what?

00:12:10: You do and evolving along the lines of your original vision as far As I can tell from having followed you guys for The last few months.

00:12:20: Yeah hundred percent.

00:12:21: i think our common thread and That will continue is always exploring multiculturalism, multinational identities.

00:12:31: And we do always encapsulate some kind of journey whether that is on foot or now.

00:12:36: in Greenland was mainly on the ship and then In The Balkans We did a road trip.

00:12:41: and it's Always about traveling between countries Or along country borders?

00:12:47: And exploring what It means to stand in Between them.

00:12:52: and sometimes That Means speaking To someone Who lives both realities or sometimes it's a, which is now what we're looking to in the futures collaborations between countries of filmmakers from across different countries.

00:13:07: Which is essentially the beauty of Europe as we see at anyway this idea of being at home and more than one place?

00:13:16: And that something I very much feel although in Europe my only real roots you could say are on Germany now in Spain, having been here two weeks very much at home and somewhere already.

00:13:30: And I feel the same in many other places even if you're so different... Even in Serbia where we were just now there's some kind of basic intrinsic level of understanding between each other-even your languages are completely different.

00:13:45: There is food that you recognise, history painful and joyful that you share..There always a point of connection And those are the little bits and pieces that we always draw on.

00:13:59: Let me try to tell these stories.

00:14:02: Yeah, I mean it's unity in diversity as its also laid out into European treaties which is something that fascinated me about European law or about European democracy back then when I was, i think the motivation for what you do resonates with me because it wasn't right.

00:14:27: For Me It Was The Motivation For Studying um...the Intersection Between Like You Know What Does Culture Have To Do With Democracy and And What Are The Foundations?

00:14:35: But Then Which We Move?

00:14:38: This Unity In Diversity?

00:14:40: Um..I Think That It's Obviously A Share a Reality that we share.

00:14:44: a lot of people don't feel like this Because Otherwise We wouldn't have this rise in populism and a resurgence of nationalism, which is about closing borders.

00:14:56: Which goes totally contrary to what you've been saying about traveling into border

00:15:01: regions.".

00:15:05: Okay cool!

00:15:07: So why do we leave off?

00:15:08: For our listeners just had little bit connection issues so were gonna dive back with some break but I was talking far too much anyway.

00:15:19: We were going on about unity and diversity, how we have the legal framework.

00:15:25: And you are telling stories that play out within that framework which is invisible but also been to European Parliament.

00:15:41: You've invited a couple of institutions to tell your story.

00:15:49: I think the advantage that we have and with the advantage, probably every young person in Europe has.

00:16:00: With telling stories like this is that We are able to speak In ways That these institutions Are not able To speak.

00:16:07: because.

00:16:08: so i'm just making assumptions here.

00:16:12: but yes i was invited by The europe experience unit which Is a part of the european parliament Communicating how democracy works in Europe with the public and they do this through exhibition spaces, events all kinds of things.

00:16:27: They invited us because we were interested on our project but also made it quite clear that there have to be careful about their communication.

00:16:37: I can't even really divulge too much what you talked about until... There comes a point where something to talk about.

00:16:49: So I think the reason they invited us is because we are able to speak in ways that there not, Because their an official institution They have to abide by certain political rules and agendas And essentially not take sides Whereas obviously We Have a fairly clear set of values Which does align quite strongly with that With The Values Of European Commission In Parliament those institutions.

00:17:18: And we are able to speak quite clearly, or just the EU-based fear and I think this is kind of power that...that bombarded with information, most of which quite depressing and about war in conflict.

00:17:42: And how essentially everything we value and cherish is falling apart?

00:17:47: It's always delivered to us in the form of facts and figures and headlines... ...and you just become so desensitized for it!

00:17:54: I don't necessarily think that the world is necessary in a worse place than It has been before, but we have access to information like never before.

00:18:05: So in our minds I think it sometimes feels Like a real doomsday scenario and our mission really with this project was not necessarily To portray life In Europe or the world as you know Rosie And wonderful and everyone loves each other But really to give much more personal angle to these stories A lot more nuance.

00:18:28: Just as an example, we just spent two weeks in Serbia and then drove up to Lithuania following the story of a young student who's half Serbian Half-Lithuanian And is settling back home in Vilnius with this sense of geopolitical uncertainty and fear because you know recently they had all these drone incursions come across the border from Belarus and Russia.

00:18:52: Our goal was not To show how wonderful life is for her.

00:18:57: Our goal was to give a very nuanced and personal perspective as what that feels like, um... And the sadness and pain and uncertainty comes with it and also the opportunity that comes with being young woman in Eastern Europe right now Um..and I think this something that interests these large institutions because maybe they can speak through us In way where they cannot speak themselves And I think that's something we want to harness.

00:19:29: It sounds like you're doing a kind of journalism, but different?

00:19:55: Try to have conversations try to get news out of the.

00:19:59: Also, they knew it living there are other people living their and you actually went there for quite a long time.

00:20:06: It's like a slow journalism approach right?

00:20:09: And you actually managed to have conversation that I didn't see anywhere else.

00:20:14: Can you tell us about that experience?

00:20:17: yeah So at the start this year usually in Europe In February January February When it comes to filmmaking, you know there's limited options because everything is kind of slowing down.

00:20:32: It's the holiday period and we were like settling down to edit some stuff from that previous year.

00:20:38: And then all this news started surfacing about Greenland.

00:20:41: I was following it and i was kind of appalled.

00:20:46: Yes partly Because obviously its another shocking political move From The US To just take what they think They want get away with it.

00:20:56: But really what I found similarly appalling is the kind of muse that was being shared with us, which is not about Greenland at all but it's... It was all about inflationary stories about Trump wants and expectations he has And even interviews with locals you saw were such superficial lines.

00:21:22: Would you sell your house for a million dollars?

00:21:24: and what do you think of Trump and scaring children in the street with cameras and microphones.

00:21:29: And I was thinking, the whole time surely there's better way to do this?

00:21:35: Well i had some free-time delusional optimism that somehow we could something more meaningful than hope.

00:21:48: guess one of my skills and the reason why I enjoy this line-of work so much is that i really love connecting with places, people who know nothing about.

00:21:57: And without thinking too much...I booked some flights or discussed it with a team in Rowena producer um..and she pretty much said go for it you know?

00:22:09: It's uh was entirely self funded!

00:22:12: I bought the flight and then started looking at where could stay and decided to stay in the end for two months.

00:22:21: And the plane I arrived on was filled with essentially army personnel, journalists... ...and myself!

00:22:30: There wasn't a single tourist there.

00:22:35: Why is their whole plane speaking English?

00:22:37: They were all journalists from the biggest news channels you could think about.

00:22:44: All of them—I talked too much—were therefore probably a max of three days and the strategy was always the same is you go into the street or maybe have a fixer, they line up with a couple interviews.

00:22:59: You cut together five minute news segment.

00:23:01: push it out to your next one.

00:23:05: The lines are questioning were also the same at that time when I went there provoked some conversations.

00:23:20: Interesting,

00:23:21: so I was yeah and i had very huge imposter syndrome because I was there with no major institution or channel representation And thought you know who am I to come here?

00:23:34: And explore these themes These very sensitive things With people already overwhelmed And really the first few days were very, really hard for that reason.

00:23:48: So I decided... The only advantage i had and opportunity was time!

00:24:15: life in Nuuk at the time, the capital.

00:24:17: And then slowly over time I spent three weeks of nuuk.

00:24:20: i spend Then a few weeks in Kakotok which is uh The fourth largest town and there's a greenland south with about three thousand habitants and then some time In Kasyasuq Which Is A Town Of Approximately Forty People Even Further inland and even further more remote.

00:24:40: um and Slowly but surely divulge that I was doing this project and wanted to tell Greenland's story from an actual Greenlandic perspective, not a US-centric perspective.

00:24:57: And that resonated with people... The first couple were probably the most difficult but once we had a few examples.

00:25:05: i interviewed a local hunter Kitadak for example who made some videos showing what they're doing.

00:25:15: It actually, I think i was pretty well known by a few weeks in and people were Pretty happy to talk to me.

00:25:22: And even managed to talk To one of the only remaining Inuit tattoo artists who hasn't given an interviews it in eight seven or eight years Just because I think I Was The Only One Who Is There For That Long?

00:25:38: Um...I was there longer than some residents Because There's So Many Fly-In FlyOut Workers that Come And it was an incredibly rewarding experience.

00:25:50: Yeah, It sounds to me like you approached your stay in Greenland.

00:25:54: just anyone would approach moving into a new place.

00:25:57: No trying to get a group of the lay-of-the land and You know sort of Does that resonate?

00:26:06: Like he doesn't

00:26:07: think we're

00:26:08: not new plays.

00:26:08: yeah exactly

00:26:11: I Think its...and this is the approach We now take for every story.

00:26:16: We can talk about Greece, but Rowena producer.

00:26:18: She went to Greece earlier this year for I think it was six weeks and there as well.

00:26:25: in Greenland our goal is not even make a film.

00:26:28: we knew that building relationships takes time And telling an authentic story takes times.

00:26:33: so the only goal of both these trips was to establish connections To learn.

00:26:38: Yes!

00:26:39: We made few Instagram reels and many micro documentaries.

00:26:43: you could call them But it was a research trip.

00:26:48: And our goal is always to return and to establish this relationship, and to follow it over years because that's the only way to begin to tell the story of these places That you cannot... There just no way You can encapsulate them.

00:27:03: in two days Of interviews on the street No one will open up To you at time or trust your own time Because I mean they shouldn't.

00:27:11: It's you're a stranger At that point Um, and it's also just the most rewarding thing to now know that if I returned to Greenland there are people that know me.

00:27:24: That i've have memories with that i would call friends even um.

00:27:31: And i was thinking the whole time that even if nothing comes of this Even if There is no film at the end and there's no result like This will be something i remember for the rest of my life.

00:27:43: It's even something I think, i will remember the rest of my life because it was such an unsettling time.

00:27:49: And that feel just you know from in terms of maybe like feedback From someone who is watching from outside as people are interested In following current events and were Interested what's happening around the beginning Of year with those at least rhetorical claims.

00:28:12: uh on the u.s.

00:28:14: they claim on a nato country i mean any even if it wasn't nato, I'm not saying that makes up better but it was just such a shift It felt like such a gift and Just watching the kind of conversations that you were having Felt really like someone closing the gap between this sensationalist news cycle.

00:28:36: To be honest, you know it is quite stressful to follow only that kind of news but It's the kind of News and storytelling we depend on right now.

00:28:45: And what?

00:28:46: The Europa project does Is take that time and build their trust.

00:28:51: Basically What I want to say is That i do feel like it fills a gap at least for some people.

00:28:59: Like is that feedback You get sometime?

00:29:02: or in how far Do you Feel like your own ranger?

00:29:05: Do you feel like?

00:29:10: by the way, I don't think that you need to measurely have an impact.

00:29:14: If what you do makes sense and can pay your rent is enough.

00:29:20: but in how far are we actually making a difference?

00:29:36: planning and thinking about it for two to three years.

00:29:40: And filming, we had a short... We had a screening recently for our first kind of animated micro-short film which was series interviews.

00:29:51: that started in Australia at the time when this was like initial beginning so its been going on longer.

00:29:58: but now took us awhile really find out direction because is such big scope In one lifetime, you're never going to do it all.

00:30:08: So it took us some time to figure out that yes this is what we want to do.

00:30:13: um specifically What?

00:30:15: You just said this kind of slow intentional type of journalism and sometimes more artistic interpretation Of those same themes.

00:30:24: And specifically now after our trip to Serbia I think It's becoming The case.

00:30:31: We are taking on this guiding producing role where we empower other kind of directors, young filmmakers across Europe to tell their own stories and we just help them through that process.

00:30:42: And I think that is going to be ultimately the biggest impact we have because it's the one way in which we can really eventually cover a huge amount of area and stories and people as if don't try do all ourselves.

00:31:01: And this trip to Greenland now felt like we were having an impact simply because it helped, I think people there... To be heard.

00:31:10: So even if our reach was decent during that time but ignore the numbers for a second It's just good for people get off their chest what they really want to say and not put value on life or livelihoods of camera.

00:31:27: We're seeking kind-of course To be present at film festivals and that kind of institutional recognition is something you know, You need in the end to pay bills long term.

00:31:39: But I think The biggest impact we can possibly have Is to empower as many other people As possible... ...to take up a similar form Of storytelling Because then it becomes bigger than us And they can live beyond the life of project Even though We do intend doing this for a long time.

00:31:57: Wonderful.

00:31:57: In this podcast, one theme that has been recurring interestingly because it's not something I necessarily intended but is the issue of value creation how you create value and what there seems to be when your work towards a positive future in terms of being an environmental change or regeneration a very particular understanding of what it means to build future and to build value for the future.

00:32:35: And, It is not just monetary.

00:32:38: obviously you need salary-to-live right?

00:32:42: You need economic stability in order to do what you do.

00:32:46: but In terms of the value that you wish to create What's your understanding or value creation?

00:32:55: I think For us its too equip As many people as we can with the skills, but more so than that.

00:33:07: The confidence That they have something worth saying and then there's something worth contributing to a story of kind Of Europe and the world.

00:33:17: And I think specifically the confidence is... ...the difficult and most important part Because we all have access and know that the information, skills or learning is a very difficult thing.

00:33:33: It was for us to believe what you want to say is worth putting out there which will add something We're predisposed on believing ideas are not original enough.

00:33:52: The very same applies for the film, we just completed or finished filming in Serbia and Lithuania.

00:33:58: Julia, director of this was saying that whole time leading up to the filming process she's not sure it is interesting her life as original or different worth filming.

00:34:13: watch some footage listen what you're seeing situation, geopolitical situation in Europe encapsulated and you kind of get goosebumps immediately.

00:34:27: But it's so hard to believe that about yourself And I think if we can give that too as many people as possible then maybe slowly We can start changing the media landscape In Europe and globally To become this more personal human nuanced reflection Of stories That otherwise would just be presented As numbers

00:34:53: Empathy, connection.

00:34:54: That kind of resonates with me when you tell that story about literally reconnecting some abstract storytelling to the body.

00:35:05: When you talk about goosebumps and personal connections

00:35:10: Yeah in the end it's for us.

00:35:15: This is what I always hated about The film industry And its what i hate about research as well when was doing environmental science.

00:35:25: There's always this networking component.

00:35:27: This sense of achievement, a sense of connection is always regarded as something transactional.

00:35:41: Yeah Like there's no personal value in it and the one thing that I've enjoyed perhaps most about this whole project Is all people we have met And become friends with along And these are people that we're still in contact with, even if this project didn't exist.

00:35:58: We'd be friends now and the crew that we had in Slovenia, in Italy... The people I met in Greenland, the connections of our friends who were made from Greece.

00:36:09: Every country or place where you visit is just like a growing family.

00:36:16: Now i know it could go back there for years to come And I think that is the goal as well, it's at people we work with.

00:36:28: We're very selective about... But the reason is that we are not there to provide some kind of transactional value but to form real relationships That will last hopefully in the rest of our lives.

00:36:42: This something we do for us As much as for The world and other People Because this way we'll be able To keep doing It For the next thirty, forty or fifty years Is if gives That and it gives, we give that back to people.

00:36:58: So its very much the whole thing as a personal endeavor in all about connection.

00:37:03: Someone said which resonated with me once because I'm former caretaker so like when you care for others.

00:37:12: You care yourself And everyone can relate this context of family or the context friendship In terms building connections with strangers.

00:37:25: This is something where I feel you have this experience and living with the network that your building.

00:37:36: And when we listen to narratives of extreme political forces trying break these bonds in Europe, it always feels like there's such a fear for others.

00:37:56: How do you manage to observe this happening at the same time as your doing?

00:38:01: Your work and stick.

00:38:03: To your way of going about things.

00:38:06: how far is that present?

00:38:08: yeah, I mean obviously we're biased.

00:38:12: i do acknowledge that We do try our best to engage to engage with All perspectives on this matter, we've gotten actually a bunch of really negative messages and sometimes threats from certain extremist groups of people because I think there is a sense of fear.

00:38:35: Of what the other brings or what foreign perspectives bring which i do understand Because it isn't uncertain world.

00:38:46: I think i was just raised with this ideology of curiosity that before you judge, your is curious first and until proven.

00:38:59: That this person someone to fear you stay curious?

00:39:04: And thats kind what we built.

00:39:06: all the projects in all our films and content everything on.

00:39:11: it's a weird way always feel like something to learn from people who don't know or understand.

00:39:17: And yeah, that clashes with political movements and parties.

00:39:26: We actually do hope to cover or kind of interact with some of those groups more because we think there's always value in not staying separated and ignoring discrepancies.

00:39:45: but for now Well, happy is maybe the wrong word but we're okay with coexisting.

00:39:53: And in a way it's important.

00:39:55: I think yeah acknowledged that we coexist.

00:39:58: and The thing is that I've always had the feeling that kind of outside of the coin A lot of people my age That are university educated or you know young professionals We have this tendency to be quiet Because i almost feel like the more You've learned them the more you realize how little you know.

00:40:18: Yeah you tend to consider more and talk less, it's gone very much against my nature.

00:40:26: To be so present on social media or the internet has taken such tremendous effort... ...to put yourself out there because if I get this constant feedback loop of I shouldn't be sounding this confident about something that i'm not a hundred percent sure.

00:40:45: But I do recognize that it's kind of a very important way, perhaps the only way because otherwise you're drowned out by voices that you don't want to give into.

00:41:02: So there has been big part about being louder than we may be comfortable with sometimes but learning how to be.

00:41:10: That resonates so much!

00:41:12: The concept for this podcast wasn't a draw for three years.

00:41:19: Going back to your point about curiosity towards the other.

00:41:22: Curiosity not being the same as blind trust, right?

00:41:26: It sounds like I think anyone who's ever had to settle in a new place may be able to relate.

00:41:32: there is no choice if you don't want stay by yourself forever than actually open connection with people and If you trust wrong people too quickly then probably take stepback but kind of developing this openness and ability to build trust in connection with people you don't know.

00:41:55: I think it's a very valuable trait that at least, i'm trying to also carry across into the next generation.

00:42:02: my son right?

00:42:05: Not approach the world with fear but with curiosity as you say.

00:42:13: Yeah It is important value.

00:42:16: I mean, maybe it's not right.

00:42:18: I acknowledge as well that... ...I am biased in the sense that Europe has been able to overcome two world wars within one century.

00:42:30: The European Union for me is a core hope-punk project and wasn't always obvious we would be able to live in peace and kind of goes back to what you were saying at the beginning about border regions, how border regions are often historically places of conflict.

00:42:50: The fact that we have been able overcome these conflicts actually build however flawed a political framework or legal framework which allows us be European Union with you.

00:43:04: as an Australian German can travel freely and live at work in Spain as you are now doing or whichever other part of the European Union, I think that's a huge win.

00:43:20: And at the same time acknowledging that uncertainty comes with a dissolution of perceived certainty that borders bring to keep out things scary be scary for, our understanding of what it would mean.

00:43:38: It could mean or should mean to be German For instance Or Spanish or whatever I mean.

00:43:43: we have nationalist movements and all kinds in every country In the European Union.

00:43:51: And

00:43:51: yeah pretty much

00:43:53: i guess it's easier To sort of jump on those kind Of stories than it is actually tell Those if you are in a fast moving news cycle.

00:44:03: so I'm really intrigued.

00:44:06: Yeah, so yeah um So i guess it'll be just you know to throw in a quick call-to action.

00:44:15: It sells but What do you?

00:44:17: Do?

00:44:18: i hope it sells too because Talking about the financing of what you do How does it work?

00:44:26: So the very first project in Slovenia and Italy, we launched a fairly successful crowdfunding campaign.

00:44:33: I think we raised ten thousand euros on just under three weeks.

00:44:37: And then Because we launched this when were still in Australia, and Canberra being the capital.

00:44:46: And very internationally minded has strong ties with EU We managed to get a few government grounds from there To support editing process.

00:44:55: Since then have been running a Patreon But I think i posted yesterday about how im owning a full time salary From doing film.

00:45:05: This is my commercial work that do outside of project.

00:45:09: The project itself does not support us to live normally, this is something we do alongside of other things.

00:45:19: It's a goal for ours and I think it goes hand in hand with what i was saying before that were now looking at training supporting up-and coming documentary filmmakers directors who make their first film that we hope is also going to become or look forward to becoming an income stream for us.

00:45:44: And in the long term, I would love for the project to be enough where we can live from it full-time.

00:45:55: but at the moment commercial work involves other documentary projects and we apply for grants helps us support the production costs.

00:46:11: Yeah, but it's a huge risk at this stage in our life which we most of the time try not to think too much about and just take action.

00:46:23: yeah so the best way to support is that if you are looking like an aspiring filmmaker documentary maker To join one of our cohorts or if not and just want to support the project is to join a patreon community where we do offer some quite exclusive insights into The process of making these films an updates that we wouldn't share anywhere else.

00:46:50: Yeah,

00:46:52: so people please.

00:46:53: Please do support.

00:46:54: I have been following the Europa Project on Instagram Where you have it?

00:46:57: You have quite a lot of followers at least which i think It's very heartening And on Patreon perhaps to build another bridge, the rise of far-right and nationalist sentiment in Europe.

00:47:12: Because a lot of time cultural grants are some of first sectors that get cut from public funding.

00:47:24: so I guess how do you see it?

00:47:27: Why would be interested?

00:47:29: why you think culture is dangerous from the perspective of nationalist or far-right movements?

00:47:40: Or anti-European... Well,

00:47:45: I think it comes down to this.

00:47:47: As you were saying, portrayal of foreign groups and people.

00:47:52: in the end The reason why a project like the European Union is so impressive because It's very hard to bring together so many perspectives, To allow free speech and thought.

00:48:11: And expression of So many groups in countries and subgroups people still kind of agree on a rough political trajectory.

00:48:24: The reason why it maybe sometimes works more easily In the nationalist environment is because the wiggle room Is a lot smaller.

00:48:33: You have a very particular set of values which cannot really be negotiated.

00:48:40: Very much you Have, A very particular portrayal Of foreign groups of people.

00:48:46: i think in world war two we have in germany you know jewish People were kind of Categorized into this Subhuman race.

00:48:55: and now We have immigrants as being portrayed As you Know unwilling to work dirty violent whatever it is.

00:49:06: And if you allow cultural expression or stories freely to be told, then your narrative will kind of lose its meaning a little bit or become clear how ridiculous it really is.

00:49:25: and nationalists or fascist movements rely on controlling the And controlling your view of groups, people and really leaning into an extremist perspective.

00:49:42: And culture is inherently nuanced.

00:49:45: so it's kind of the opposite.

00:49:46: It makes sense even if its scary from their perspective to disallow that or at least control which.

00:49:56: why in every fascist government nationalist regime I think you're TV Gets more and more control the media that culture Any kind of expression even writing at some point, you know Nazis burned a ton of books for exactly that reason.

00:50:16: And yeah So I think that's the threat.

00:50:19: This is exactly the first opportunity it to embrace this nuance and To lean into it and show that there are more than one way.

00:50:29: Even in a democratic environment where There is freedom of expression and you have a balanced, I don't know selection of news outlets the problem can become that.

00:50:42: You have an over reliance on facts and figures in your lose this like these nuance which yes there's bias and new ones.

00:50:51: that's the problem at the opportunity with projects like ours is that we tell stories from human perspective which means theirs inherent by us.

00:50:59: but if we think as long as we draw on it large enough sample of people, hopefully we get a good representation and We can be a little bit more emotive.

00:51:09: And a little but more heartfelt and personal than if we just reported the facts.

00:51:15: That makes a lot sense.

00:51:16: Yeah What is the project that you guys are working on there?

00:51:19: It's getting me most excited right now.

00:51:20: where are you going next?

00:51:23: What's cooking?

00:51:24: so much your role

00:51:24: per project.

00:51:27: well Most excited.

00:51:30: this is so difficult.

00:51:32: I We're working on probably four things at the same time.

00:51:35: At the moment, we are working on the Slovenia Italy film which is... I think i'm excited for that because it's nearly done.

00:51:46: Obviously Greenland and Greece Which were turning into their own films.

00:51:50: But I am actually very exited about The film we just did in Serbia & Lithuania Just beacause It was such an experiment To seize a bit of control Of where this story goes and just empower someone else.

00:52:06: And if it works, I think It will change the game.

00:52:10: so much for us because we'll open up So many doors.

00:52:15: i made an exclusive announcement on our newsletter a few days last week to say We want to repeat this format?

00:52:33: Sphere of impact we could have would just increase tenfold and I think that's why that's getting me really excited Because it is.

00:52:41: Just the opportunities incredible there.

00:52:44: yeah

00:52:45: nice, i Think It's probably time to slowly wrap up although i Could you know?

00:52:52: Keep on talking for another five hours about this topic Which Is very dear To my heart.

00:52:56: Yeah

00:52:57: but if You were um If You Were Just Finishing School Again Today Which piece of advice would you give yourself?

00:53:08: I find this so difficult because it's such an individual thing and... ...I know that when i was finishing high school, I was looking everywhere for someone to just tell me what do.

00:53:24: And.. ..I think the only thing I've really learned is That where- I'm a lot more like if just from my perspective I'm a lot more than just one thing.

00:53:38: i think the world and social media has become so obsessed with telling us.

00:53:43: You know lock in work hard you get to good job retire by this day but thirty five if you save all your money or no actually quit your job and follow dream do something creative, or not actually settle down have family and live for that it's.

00:53:59: there is much advice floating around.

00:54:01: almost feels like.

00:54:05: Like, it's either this or that.

00:54:07: And then there are no other options.

00:54:10: when I really think we're so such nuanced individuals all of us That There is No rush to pick a direction and feel like your life was over because you made the decision.

00:54:27: I constantly have reinvent myself and we really have to re-invent project.

00:54:34: And if that means, next year suddenly I have to get a normal job again then i will.

00:54:41: If it means having to move countries again than i will.

00:54:46: It's not really about getting too an outcome as fast possible and starting to realize this part of the project where its not all figured out yet is actually so enjoyable.

00:54:59: There are so much opportunity enjoy.

00:55:02: passion just gets like journey there that it's completely fine and normal, great to be doing multiple things.

00:55:11: And say look I'm doing this job but also after work i am doing a side project... ...and I can do both!

00:55:19: There is no reason for me lock myself into something.. ..and think then thats all there are multiple versions of us in ourselves.

00:55:28: we can explore That.

00:55:30: probably the biggest lesson I have learnt To not stress so much, maybe to put it very simply.

00:55:37: That makes a lot of sense.

00:55:39: Thank you so much for your time.

00:55:41: Yeah Thanks So Much For Having Me.

00:55:43: It's Been Really Wonderful Experience To Be On A Podcast Like This.

00:55:50: As we go into these increasingly uncertain times, I believe it's ever more important to tell these kinds of stories.

00:56:11: Ones that show unity and diversity as it is lived.

00:56:15: It's the European Union's claim after all And the premise of The Political Project That living together peacefully in spite of cultural differences Is not only possible but valuable.

00:56:26: Populism & extremism on whichever side Of the political spectrum depend on othering On telling stories of us versus them.

00:56:35: When Ben and his team travel to border regions, And tell nuanced stories of people living together as neighbors in peace It's an antidote To othering.

00:56:45: As is their approach Of encouraging other filmmakers To tell their own stories.

00:56:51: If you want support the Europa project You can do so via their Patreon.

00:56:55: Also Do follow them on Instagram.

00:56:57: Its all linked In show notes And if you have comments or suggestions, pop me an email on myte.hopepunk.eu.

00:57:11: That's M-A-Y-T-E at hopepunk .eu.

00:57:15: I look forward to hearing from you.